These are prone to deterioration and the cause of many ignition faults. . Lucas SR2 Magneto - Hitchcocks Forum Links to some interesting If an earth brush is fitted behind the back-plate, check that the spring is good, that the brush is free to move and that it is not unduly worn in length or diameter. Not sure what came off, but 1930s/40s I would have thought.prefer collection, but would post. In early magnetos the magnets were formed from a cobalt material and had to be remagnetised if the armature was ever removed. classic vehicles generally. at some of the equipment we use in our workshop for magneto servicing It may not display this or other websites correctly. DO NOT ATTEMPT THIS IF YOU ARE FITTED WITH A PACEMAKER, OR HAVE A HEART CONDITION, OR IF YOU REALLY HATE ELECTRIC SHOCKS. These are prone to deterioration and the cause of many ignition faults. books. V-TWINS Magnetos are always a compromise, usually producing a strong spark to one cylinder and a weaker one to the other. Lucasworkshopinstructions-otherstuff. Make sure they are there and can move in their holders and give them a good clean. Twin sparks provide two flame fronts within the cylinder, these two flame fronts decreasing the time needed for the fuel charge to burn. Likes: 260. scotland. We can adapt for most applications. Replace if necessary. DIY Magneto Maintenance and Troubleshooting %PDF-1.5 % the brass is in the wrong place, as a result of a magneto with a segment-type slip-ring having an incorrect cam fitted or having the wrong direction of slip-ring fitted. An ignition magneto (also called a high-tension magneto) is an older type of ignition system used in spark-ignition engines (such as petrol engines). Put a smear of grease on the lobe(s) of the cam. load correctly in the translated versions of the pages. I highly doubt it is excessive unless someone has been grinding the rotor or the cap. If sloppy, consider fitting a new moving point (Lucas), bush (BTH), or pivot post. Timing Lucas K2F and K2FC Magneto | Jockey Journal Forum If there is a main-body earth brush and it is accessible, remove it and check that the spring is good, that the brush is free to move in the holder and that the brush is not unduly worn in length or diameter. demand to 'perfectly functional' or 'as-new' VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. Coil may still function somewhat and not completely failed but ratio of turns lost because of insulation breakdown. to suit the needs of a customer. A good Wico X series mag will jump at least 3/8" air gap. of which is the product of Brightspark Magnetos Ltd's 096792012013 - 2020 | Website design by The Net Effect of Sheffield, Website design by The Net Effect of Sheffield. To contact injunmort simply click on his name and the forum will display his e-mail address, Helge. This was examined earlier. If there are any, repeat until the paper comes out clean. Any suggestions? You need to be a member in order to leave a comment. Electrical - Armature windings, Condenser, Slip ring, Points and Bushes. This is really common on original units as the Lucas condensers were made from wax paper and foil. Due to the inevitable losses in the system, this oscillation decays fairly rapidly. If the magneto is fitted with, or about to be fitted with, a Brightspark EasyCap, you can perform some basic checks on the EasyCap. If it is several thousand ohms, it indicates that the HT lead is resistive and/or the plug cap is fitted with a suppressor resistor. Measure the resistance with the two probes of your multi-meter shorted together. [5] Therefore, some magnetos have an impulse coupling, a springlike mechanical linkage between the engine and magneto drive shaft which "winds up" and "lets go" at the proper moment for spinning the magneto shaft. Even if the points surfaces look good, clean them with fine emery cloth to remove any oxide layer. MAGNETO MAGIC - PressReader He got it and thought the ring the points rides in came out and just needed pushed in. Lucas Magneto Bearing Shim Pack 15mm | E15 | N3048 | K1F | SR | K2F . Magneto coils are usually a long time dying. If excessively worn, replace the heel (BTH), or the moving-point assembly (Lucas). Don't want this buried as I 'm hoping for some possible answers today. %%EOF Having removed the contact-breaker assembly from the magneto, disassemble it, noting where each part was. 0000002409 00000 n Check out our magneto armature winding service. To do this, measure the resistance between the magneto body and the end of the armature shaft. (Chinese) Nous However, if the reading is more than 7000 ohms, there is probably either a break in the HT winding, or a bad connection between the live end of the HT winding and the slip-ring. rebuilt amature runs about 85pnds from independent ignition. I did notice a very small spark between the contact breaker points. With twin- or multi-cylinder magnetos, and some single-cylinder magnetos, the brass is a segment, rather than a complete ring, and you may need to rotate the armature in order to be able to see it. Vintage Lucas magneto, working, 4VRS CO5,good condition 0000009971 00000 n Thank you for your patience. To all you guys with Lucas magnetos with problems, get ready to see it fully functional for about $23 shipped, along with a little work in your garage. We shall resume operations as soon as we possibly can. startxref magnetos available for sale or in Dansk Check for any dirty marks on the paper. heavier the better. If you can see the slip-ring through the pick-up hole in the main housing, check that the brass ring or segment of the slip-ring is brass coloured (albeit possibly a bit dirty or tarnished), but not completely black. The capacitor and the coil together form a resonant circuit which allows the energy to oscillate from the capacitor to the coil and back again. read more deeply). If you are having trouble with your ignition system we recommend that you first change your spark plugs and HT leads. Check the state of the contact return spring and replace if broken. rebuilding magnetos and of how to extract an I know a great starting engine will fire a plug with 3/16" gap when external of a cylinder. I worked on farm equipment for my last real service job from 2013 thru 2016. I do not know it all but I will try to help. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Electrics & Ignition | SRM Classic Bikes "Colonel fair is fair: if I nail Hotlips and punch Hawkeye can I go home too?". We detailed instructions in our 'condensectomy' Without suppressor: suppressor: Percentage difference with suppressor: Peak HT voltage to initiate spark: 9600 V: 10600 V at magneto: 10.4 %: 9300 V at spark gap-3.1 %: DC component of HT current immediately after striking spark: 53 mA: 52 mA-1.8 % Values vary considerably depending on the make and model of magneto and who wound it. JRC Engineering Inc. 3110 Indian Ave Unit 1E, Perris, CA, 92571. With a multimeter, check the resistance between the tip of the pick-up brush and the terminal in the plug cap. Any high tension magneto will have way more than 7 ohms resistance on the secondary circuit. 2. On more advanced magnetos the cam ring can be rotated by an external linkage to alter the ignition timing. In the late 1890s, English engineer Frederick Richard Simms and German engineer Robert Bosch developed the first practical high-tension magneto. She was factory fitted with a Morris Vedette MKII engine which has a lucas rf4 magneto. The resistance between the two sides of the circuit board (with your fingers well clear) should climb to in excess of 2 G (2000 M). If there is a difference, adjust the points so that it is the smaller gap that is 0.012 (0.3 mm). Svensk We provide Don't flame, hate, spam. not load correctly in the translated versions of the pages. instructions). With an open circuit the device has no CAPACITY to absorb the reaction voltage (back EMF) from the coil, therefore this energy is dissipated across the timing contact which quickly burns away. If you do not obtain readings substantially the same as the reading you obtained in the internal HT continuity section, and if everything else you previously checked is still good, it indicates that the pick-up brush(es) is/are not making good electrical contact with the brass of the slip ring. 0000006861 00000 n Nice work. 0000001184 00000 n Many should appreciate. Check that the spring of the pick-up brush is good, that the brush is free to move in its holder and that it is not unduly worn in length or diameter. PDF LUCAS MAGNETOS - edknet.de After a full rebuild my motor started right up, rode for 5 minutes, stopped, no spark. This allows the spring to unwind giving the rotating magnet a rapid rotation and letting the magneto spin at such a speed to produce a spark. if it doesn't jump 3/16" double check the points to see if they are shiny clean the whole face of each point. No this is the type of stuff I like logging in to see! Deutsch I have seen that a lot on FM mags. If there is a groove where a lubricating felt should be, but is missing, consider making and fitting a replacement. 0000001913 00000 n Once equipment. asked questions, some of which isn't to be slip rings and pick-ups for Lucas and BTH The readings for the two plug caps should now be swapped around. Replace the main-body earth brush, if applicable. This disables the magneto to reduce the risk of electric shock and fire. At atmospheric pressure, the voltage required to strike a spark across the 0.020 (0.5 mm) gap of a sparking plug is far less than the voltage required at the elevated pressure that the plug experiences in the engines cylinder. Could be bad parts if spark just gets a lot weaker but if spark totally goes away when cap and rotor are installed, be sure the when you install them it does not short out the primary, give the rotor a closer ground to jump to or hold the points open, etc. old condenser to be disconnected. In the Lucas MO1, it is on one side, adjacent the contact-breaker housing. capacitance to satisfactory ignition system We will check all the parts of the magneto for faults and will provide a firm quotation for a repair along with a description of the magneto repair required. Because the magneto has low voltage output at low speed, starting an engine is more difficult. Some have both types of earth brush. 0000003777 00000 n You should not let a Wico X go out the door if it will not jump more than 1/4" because something is wrong. Contact Us - DO NOT EMAIL CAR QUESTIONS. Carefully check for any cracks or pin-holes in the pick-up. Magneto: No Spark - Antique Automobile Club of America Place a clean piece of strong paper between the points, and with the points closed pull the paper out. MochetVelo English Trouble starting my 1924 Citroen engine. Take a look things we think matter when it comes to magnetos and. 0 Having set the timing with the points opening on one cam lobe, you should check that it is also correct with the points opening on the other cam lobe. If higher than that, investigate. but enjoy doing it, with confidence, relying on the One or more times per revolution, just as the magnet pole moves away from the coil and the magnetic flux begins to decrease, a cam opens the contact breaker (called "the points" in reference to the two points of a circuit breaker) and interrupts the current. When the magneto is supposed to fire, the flyweights are released by the action of the body contacting the trigger ramp. Remove two nuts and funny-looking-long-thing that attaches the mag to the engine Check the plug-wires at the end that goes into the mag .and remove sparkplug-cap and make sure you have a good connection (maybe you'll want to cut of a bit and re-atttach) Remove the two high-tension pick-ups from the mag i found that is a cheaper, easier way to go than doing it my self with refurbished parts. Norsk https://www.smokstak.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=294172&stc=1&d=1508717862. Lucas vertical magneto in good condition and sparking. This was diagnosed as the cam ring not being properly timed to the magnetic poles. BTW, Michael, that's a darn clever trick/solution! information aggregated from many sources. If the timing is not correct on both lobes, the reason could be that: the contact-breaker assembly is wobbly on the end of the armature; the cam or its housing were incorrectly machined (rare); with ring-cam magnetos, the armature and cam are not coaxial due to the outer race of the bearing at the contact-breaker end not being seated properly by its insulator in the cam housing. sequences illustrating the importance of 0000000016 00000 n Thanks mmcdonald, all good info. Thanks again. Turn the armature in its proper direction of rotation until the contact-breaker points are just starting to open. (Japanese) I got it back, spun it, sparked. You can check for this by trying to start in a dark area with no lighting. There has been requests lately on the board for more tech stuff. use in our workshop for magneto servicing If there are any, replace the pick-up. dynamos, regulators, alternators and It uses a magneto and a transformer to make pulses of high voltage for the spark plugs. 0000001015 00000 n Your mag likely has a bad condensor. Please note: THEY ARE NOT FOR SALE! degrade with age. If there is a quickly-detachable connection between the HT lead and pick-up, undo it and check the condition of the connection. U.S. agrees to $5 million settlement over police killing of Bijan Common Faults on Magnetos The gap will widen as the wire ends melt further apart and soon the adjacent turns will be affected so the coil will eventually fail. Parts lists and workshop instructions, not With the mag on the engine, there is a spark at all 4 plugs . We also provide here. If you have an auto-ranging meter, the reading might jump about a bit on the way while it changes scales. If the magnet is full strength and the spark at the points looks right then I would still say you have a coil problem with some shorted turns or something. Put a smear of grease on the surface of the cam that engages its housing. I pulled my B34 out after the winter and could not get it started. [7] Ignition magnetos were soon was used on most cars, for both low voltage systems (which used secondary coils to fire the spark plugs) and high voltage magnetos (which fired the spark plug directly, similar to induction coil ignition). Remove the pick-up(s) from the magneto taking care not to mislay the gasket(s). Still here since 1996 serving BritBike enthusiasts. magneto electronic ignition conversion, repairs Lucas & BTH, 5 year quality are also available, of the correct Check the cam surface. After you get your spark strong enough, then worry about cap and rotor. [5], The first person to develop the idea of a high-tension magneto was Andr Boudeville,[citation needed] but his design omitted a condenser (capacitor). If the brass is black, it indicates that the brush(es) are too soft and/or years of neglect. I would narrow the plug gaps to .020" and see what happens. If necessary, dress the points on a fine stone. However, typical signs of magneto problems are, among others: -- Bike hard to start. On the Lucas magnetos, the spec is to jump a .200 gap at 200 rpm for the slow speed test. Re-install the contact-breaker assembly, ensuring that it registers properly with the armature shaft. From the basic to the complex - some JavaScript is disabled. 0000005012 00000 n 0000003086 00000 n ZK~!c. Please phone or email for details. "A Community of Antique Engine Enthusiasts." With a multimeter, check the resistance between the brass of the slip ring and the end of the armature shaft (armature earth). Turn the armature in its proper direction of rotation until the contact-breaker points are just starting to open on one of the cam lobes. Open the points and blow between them to dislodge any remnants of paper. Click Here to view Lucas face cam (magdyno) parts manual. specially-selected, top-quality, British-made I'm working on a Lucas Mag right now for the first time and this is extremely helpful. The last of these possible reasons is very often the cause. The reading should be between 0.5 and 0.7 ohms greater than your first reading. Rotate the armature until the contact-breaker points are open. If you do, then replace the pick-up. Thoroughly clean the pick-up using a rag moistened with petrol. If they look good I would replace the condenser if it has one and retest. - there's a lot of stuff in our frequently A simple magneto (an electrical generator using permanent magnets) is able to produce relatively low voltage electricity, however it is unable to produce the high voltages required by a spark plug as used in most modern engines (aside from diesel engines). However, dont make them lop-sided. I would be interested to hear from people who either have seen this running or know of similar setups in forges. Powered by Invision Community. 0000002847 00000 n At least I assume so: My timing light (seen in photo clamped to plug wire #1) illuminates correctly when plug #1 is unscrewed from the engine and sparks, but it does not light up when the plug is screwed into the engine. Always good to learn how to check lucas parts, one of the weaker parts of a triumph motor.. Classic Cycles inc. 2199 N. Batavia Suite J. Oil on the inside of the pick-up is usually indicative of a failure of the magnetos oil seal, in which case the magneto will need a more complete overhaul. What else could possibly be grounding this? Our preferred gap for spark testing in fresh air is 6 mm. If it is significantly lower, then there is probably a short-circuit in the contact-breaker assembly or in the armature. The impulse coupling uses a spring, a hub cam with flyweights, and a shell. The family of Bijan Ghaisar, shot dead by two U.S. Park Police officers as he slowly drove his Jeep Grand Cherokee away from them in 2017, agreed to settle their lawsuit against the . Under construction, so far showing video As the field collapses rapidly there is a large voltage induced (as described by Faraday's Law) across the primary coil. Check the state of the tappet and replace if necessary. In the case of a main-body earth brush, try moistening a cotton bud with petrol, and poke it through the hole for the earth brush to clean the track while rotating the armature, but IMPORTANTLY before doing that temporarily remove or disable the contact breaker to reduce the risk of electric shock and fire. Thanks. If everything were perfect and clean, the resistance should be infinite (OL). If you have identified the magneto as the source of your ignition fault send it to us for repair. The other plug cap should give a reading that is infinite (OL) or extremely high. Ignition magneto - Wikipedia British motorcycles on e-Bay North America, Powered by UBB.threads PHP Forum Software 7.7.5. Also, many magnetos (especially twin- and multi-cylinder devices) are provided internally with safety gaps, typically of 6.5 to 7.5 mm, and if the magneto cant find an outlet through whatever is or isnt connected to it, it happily sparks the safety gaps instead. With the points fully open, adjust the points gap to 0.012 (0.3 mm). Initial installation does require the If it is an original capacitor then it will almost certainly fail because of its age and the materials and techniques that were used to construct them. Brightspark Magnetos Ltd disclaims responsibility for any errors classic owners. From time to time we have complete LUCAS K1F MAGNETO RUNNING AT 1200 RPM AT THE ARMATURE. Rotate the armature and check that, when the points are fully open, the moving point assembly is not fouling anything. Stored in the dry. pages on how to do that. We recommend using non-resistive (copper) cable and unsuppressed plug caps. In a modern installation, the magneto only has a single low tension winding which is connected to an external ignition coil which not only has a low tension winding, but also a secondary winding of many thousands of turns to deliver the high voltage required for the spark plug(s). We would recommend having the transformer coil rewound as modern class F or H wires and insulations are superior to the ones used at the time it was originally made and would almost certainly give you another 40 years of good service. Recommendations for Lucas K2FC magneto rebuild? - Britbike forum 0000002567 00000 n Check that the advance/retard mechanism reliably rotates the cam back and forth. The points surfaces should be very slightly convex, so dont worry about getting them perfectly flat. Regrettably, some Acrobat .pdf files might I also want to wire up the battery better, as I'm just using jumper cables. Armoto LtdRegistered & Trading Address:Unit 26, M1 Commerce Park, Markham Lane, Duckmanton, Chesterfield S44 5HSTelephone: 01246 826667 | sales@armoto.co.ukRegistered in England Company No. Free access to service and repair As the size of the combustion chamber determines the time to burn the fuel charge, dual ignition was especially important for the large-bore aircraft engines around World War II where it was necessary to combust the entire fuel mixture in a shorter time than a single plug could provide, in order to build peak cylinder pressure at the rpm desired. If youre giving your magneto a thorough check over, we suggest you tackle jobs in the order shown. 2,330 views Oct 18, 2020 16 Dislike Share Air Fuel Mixologist 1.31K subscribers I purchased this Lister D petrol (gasoline). The plugs all light when loosened, but not when installed. Turn the armature in its proper direction of rotation until the contact-breaker points are just starting to open on the other cam lobe. The contact points which are mounted onto the end of the armature shaft, used to time the breaking of the primary winding current, will become pitted and worn, especially so if the capacitor is faulty.
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